Tag: female entp

Interview with Bree Hanson – ENTP

Transcript minimally edited

Joe Arrigo  

What are some ways you have learned to be a good manager as an ENTP. And I might add ENTP female, because that’s different than an ENTP male. Just want to point that out.

Bree Hanson  

I would say the first bit of wisdom from an ENTP manager is our ability to recruit and thinking about recruiting all the time. You know, a lot of people like to think they can do everything on their own, the thing that I’ve learned is, I can’t, in fact, I can do very little on my own, I like to think of myself as more of a conductor or a fairy godmother. So something with I have a stick in my hand, but I don’t want to beat you with it, I want to create magic with it, okay, I want there to be an orchestra, I want to find the best tuba player, the best violinist, and I want them to create beautiful music together. So as a manager, I’m constantly looking for the best people, I’m not typing them right away, I’m looking for the best person for the job. And then I use type to then help manage them. So once they become you know, I’m hiring them. And usually, in the hiring process, I will ask their type to set of curiosity if they know it. Usually, in the first interview, if they don’t know it, no big deal, I’m not gonna push them into taking a test before I hire them, I literally look for the best people. So my first word of wisdom is to hire the best people, type them and then come to them as who they are, and not try to pick people based on type. Now, I only want this type of manager, whatever you will find there are people who tend to be better at certain jobs. And that will just naturally happen. If you’re picking the best people, you’re going to find that the type cluster.

Yeah, the second word of wisdom, as an ENTP manager is like organization and delegation, it can be a huge challenge for ENTPs. Oftentimes, you want to just do it ourselves, our T, extroverted thinking, as many of you know, is in the slot, which is the Witch/Senex slot, as they would say, and how I find that coming out is like, sometimes I’ll be like, hey, you’re an idiot, because you don’t know how to do this, you know, and so you become condescending, or a witch. And as a female manager, the worst thing you can do is come off as a witch because you get that label with the B-word instead. And we, we all know that no one wants to work for that person. So what I have done is instead, I’m really careful about how I record all my processes using Google Docs. I have almost like a Wikipedia playbook of how to do everything. And then I make sure as I record my processes, I create videos, step by step, how-tos, nice. And then I also have other types who I know are a little bit better at, you know, thing, finding things I miss, for instance, are ESFJ. CFO, he will find everything I’ve missed. And it’s great, by the way, you got that a lot of people resent it, don’t lean into it, they’re making you better. And that’s one of the other pieces of advice is stop resisting the types that you know, sometimes that can aggravate us come to them as they are, realize that they have superpowers you don’t utilize them for where they’re good. And then when you know, they’re kind of getting out of their lane, you know, kind of manage that appropriately.

As an ENTP manager, I find that I have three roles. I’m a coach, I’m constantly watching people and making small adjustments. And you have to be thinking that way, you’re a leader, which means leading by example, and doing everything yourself before you pass on to people. So you’re not a hypocrite, right? Understand how and why. And then you’re also a manager. And that’s the hardest one is actually managing because that’s the type you need to be detail-oriented. And, you know, you need to be a little more stickler, and disciplined. And that’s where I don’t have that ability. So I’d say me as an ENTP manager, managing is my worst aspect. 

Joe Arrigo  

That’s perfect. No, that’s that is funny, though. I mean, like, everyone has the capacity to be a manager. And I just think like, the ENTP I do not think I know anything in my life that our manager so it’s, I really wanted to hear that from you. Now, let me something that you’ve mentioned the beginning. That it’s we’re you know, we’re kind of, in a tight community, we’re all kind of bored with like, yes, we’re bored with the idea of like, you can’t use it to hire which is totally fine. Do you ever think of, I have an idea of the type of person that would be good at this job. I’m gonna ask them type-related questions like that. We’ll get an answer. That would show this is probably the type like if I needed an Introverted Sensing type, I’m going to ask them a question that introverted sensor would be like, nail it. But someone that would be like having Introverted Sensing in their inferior like an Ne type like yourself. They would struggle… they would fumble. Can you use interviewing and type in combine those?

Bree Hanson  

Yeah, and I would obviously suggest it. Your CFO is way more likely to be an N-type. And your bookkeepers are way more likely to be an SJ type. And I’m going to ask if they enjoy that type of work if they’re doing it every day. So I think it’s just naturally going to be a part of the process. 

Joe Arrigo  

Should we be trying to like type celebs, athletes, famous people?

Bree Hanson  

I love this question. Because it’s, it’s kind of it is a difficult question. One, I’ll start with intention, like what is the intention of your typing the person, I think oftentimes, we type someone in order to understand ourselves better, or recognize a part of ourselves and another person, in which case, I think that that’s a good part of the process, you should be trying to understand who you are better through relating to people. So there’s nothing wrong with that. The problem is that oftentimes, you know, the way that people are coming up, you should be showing all cognitive functions. And oftentimes, they’ll be like, Oh, look, I just saw Fi. And you’re like, Well, that was Fi, actually, in their shadow, they were in a defensive position. But most people don’t have the sense of even knowing how it works well enough to be able to take a step back and be like, Oh, well, that is that it was just showing up in this part of themselves. So I think that we have to be careful about making assumptions when we type people, especially when you go on some of these websites, and you see celebrities being typed and then a celebrity themselves, post what they are on Twitter, and it’s completely different. And so now you have to ask yourself, and this, this comes up a lot, well, who’s right? The person themselves, or the person typing them? And now you’re asking yourself, Well, does this person know themselves? And oftentimes the person doing the typing becomes arrogant? Well, of course, I know the system better than they know themselves. And I think that’s pretty arrogant. How can you watch a couple interviews with someone and so you know, someone that person has been themselves their whole life, they have an inner monologue happening, especially if they’re an introvert. Yeah. introverts, in fact, Jung said are harder to type because they do have that inner monologue and you’re only seeing their second function, right? So I think it’s best to come to someone and ask them who they are. Just ask, Hey, what have you typed as? And then, I think as you said, In a recent interview, what becomes confusing is if someone types as two different types, and now they’re going back and forth. And oftentimes, those two types don’t even look alike. So why are they I’m an INFP, and an INFJ? So I think this is where hiring a coach like yourself can be helpful in that guiding process and figuring out because if you want to figure out your type, you really need an expert to sit there and ask you the right questions and observe you and together you come up to that conclusion.

Joe Arrigo  

The most important part about working with a professional is the feedback session. And then get 360 feedback. talk to your mom, dad, sister, spouse. Confirm it. Did you have anything else to say on that?

Bree Hanson  

Yeah, since you’re the Ghost of Jung, I’m going to bring up this point. So in Jung’s day, Freud and psychoanalysis, you only came to the patient as they were in your session. Well, Jung broke that rule. Big time. We know his relationship with Toni Wolff went beyond his sessions. And what he said is, you have to observe patients outside because who they’re coming to you his persona, they are showing you one side of themselves. And really, it does take a 360-degree view of the person from other people’s observations.

Joe Arrigo  

Okay, so relationships. How does someone date ENTP? And what should they know going into that date or that relationship? 

Bree Hanson  

Very carefully. Okay, my observation, and I am an ENTP. And I’ve also dated male ENTPs. I think ENTPs have a kind of long gestation period. So that means women are going to mature faster, we’re still slow. And I’m like, Whoa, I was way behind on some of this emotional maturation. It’s okay. Um, that being said, we are curious. That is I say, the number one things is that we are constantly curious, my current partner is an INTJ. And I love the way his curiosity shows up, because it shows up way different than mine. This is a chance for me to kind of grow. But I like INTJs because they’re curious. There are some types who are less curious. And I don’t think I could have a long-term partnership with them, because it would I would get bored. And so for me, I like people who are naturally curious.

Joe Arrigo  

Okay, so what would be an example of a good first date for an ENTP?

Bree Hanson  

So even TPs are pretty perceptive. Socially, despite the fact that we take a long time to mature. When people think out of the box, for the first date, do something a little bit different, you know, taking me for drinks and trying to get me into bed…. cliche. You know, we’ve seen it a million times, taking me on a really cool hike to a place I’ve never been before. That’s going to get my attention and taking me to a small restaurant that’s, you know, Mom and Pop place that’s got, you know, really authentic food is more interesting to me than going to like Macaroni Grill.

Joe Arrigo  

If you were going on a long road trip with three other people in your car, what would those Types be?

Bree Hanson  

So in thinking about this one, I it’s like and thinking about this, I feel combining my thinking and my extroverted feeling, because my extroverted feeling does come out a lot on this one. My first instinct isn’t ESFJ. And that’s because I travel well with them. I always have, for some reason, my ability to brainstorm and their ability to kind of figure out what everybody likes. They put together a fabulous agenda and like, do most of the organization but they take all my suggestions. So I always feel like a good ESFJ, who’s organizing the trip can be really handy. I’m going to go with an INFP because I want someone to read poetry to me in the backseat of a car.

I love brainstorming and chatting with INFPs they’re dialoguists like an INFJ is a monologuist. So they’re going to just talk to me and tell me things for a long time. Whereas I’m going to banter with my INFP. So I want to, I want them on a road trip, I want all more banter, okay. And then I think for my final type, I’m going with the INTJ. Because that’s my partner. And I do think that they make for great drivers. Because they like to speed a lot there. Se comes out when they’re driving, and it can be really fun. And then I’m in this, I’m in this seat with the map. And I’m like, here’s where we go. And I like to figure out the routes and then he just zips to where I want to go. So I think that’s my crew.

Joe Arrigo  

Do you have certain types that you find take more effort on your end to work with them?

Bree Hanson  

Okay, I’ve worked for a lot of ESTJs and ISTJs naturally, because they fall into middle management positions. I like working for them because they give me the discipline that I need. But then I find myself very overworked. Like I become a workaholic when I’m working for them because the rigor and the discipline they require doesn’t, it’s too much time in the day, like there’s not enough time in the day.

I find that an INTJ or you know, more than other N types will recreate the efficiencies, and then they’re going to go ahead and completely implement them. So I find that those types need to learn how to work with upper management on getting process changes that help like they need to learn how to grease wheels really well.

I find that ESFJ’s can be draining from a… give an ESFJ a document, they will constantly comment and pick out it endlessly, forever. So you have to give them criteria in which it’s finished, right? Otherwise, it’s endless. And like I won’t hit my deadlines, and my boss is like, and I have an INTJ boss. And he’s like, why aren’t you hitting your deadlines on like the ESFJ won’t stop commenting. And he’s like, you haven’t learned to create criteria yet. So he’s actually taught me how to, he’s very good at keeping the ESF j, who’s brilliant, by the way, CFO, and he’s brilliant. And he manages a team of brilliant people. He does get in the weeds. Yeah, oftentimes, the INTJ is like, Get the hell out of the way. What are you doing in there? And I’m like, thank you. Thank you.

Joe Arrigo  

Now, this is a question that I just thought of, because we’ve chatted before offline about this. So your industry is the venture capital world, right?

Bree Hanson  

Yes, I work with I, I’m in business development, and the channel I work with is in VC.

Joe Arrigo  

So a book that I recently finished was called billion-dollar loser its about WeWork and Adam Neumann. And I just, there’s always there seems to be a trend with, like ESTPs types tend to be entrepreneurs. And for better or worse. Adam Newman is definitely an ESTP.

Bree Hanson  

That was my that was kind of my vibe. Yeah. And I’m just wondering, like to not type like we just talked. Yeah, but that’s the vibe. So let’s just say that that’s, you know, his persona.

Joe Arrigo  

Yeah, I mean, so that’s, that’s a persona that he projects to the world. I always just like, what I don’t really have a question here. I’m just sort of saying, like, isn’t it interesting how they’re, they start to group themselves, like, Oh, this is like, probably SP types in this entrepreneur. Like, if you went to a, like, Y Combinator meeting, you’re gonna get a lot of SP types. I just, maybe some entities, but I feel like you overwhelmingly be like, charismatic sellers. And just people want to be on stage and talking. So is there anything wrong with that? I mean, just does that does that sound right?

Bree Hanson  

So that would be one of the personas. So there’s several startup personas in terms of startup CEOs, one startup persona is the sales guy, that’s your ESTP. It’s, it’s like, you can almost there is you know, and that’s a large percentage of entrepreneurs. The second that you’re going to get is the product guy, okay, that’s going to be your is t, j is maybe ISTP, INTP, ENTP, INTJ, could be any of those types. It typically, I’d say you actually see a lot in the is TJ. For some reason, I see those a lot. In the third category, you have kind of more older management, maybe done it before worked for several companies, but never was a CEO, but they’re more of a serial entrepreneur type. With a business background. Those are your NT types. So you kind of those are the three groupings or product guys or business guys and your sales guys. And in venture your VCs aligned to those three personas. 

Joe Arrigo  

Bree, it was great to talk to you for glad we got to do this. I will post where people can find you on LinkedIn, so they can connect with you. But I appreciate you being here. And hopefully, we can do it again soon.

Bree Hanson  

Awesome. Thank you.

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